brent metcalfe excommunicated

On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. What an amazing life Brent! Riveting stuff. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? Contributions. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? But those were interesting times! As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. Should have added one more minor thing. Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Many years later in his interview with Dehlin, Brent Metcalfe tells of a conversation that he had with Mark E. Peterson where he plainly admits he was lying in his book. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Best wishes, Brent! The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. Nicely done, John. Twitter. In Gnosticism Abraham is not even a real person, the story represents the triumph of spirit over matter and is loaded with hidden symbolic meaning. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. Do you think he will ever come completely clean? I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. Its great to find all this background information. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. She is professor emeritus of history at Read more Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! For more information, please see our What was the arrangement and the special business relationship Steven had with the Church in this regard? God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Seventh East Press. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? All rights reserved. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. Thanks for the interview both of you. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? Thats not necessarily a problem, of course. :). I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. "[10], Naifeh, S., & Smith, G. W. (2005). All things praised God with me. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Wouldnt it have been more humorous to wait until *after* the issue was mailed out before bringing the Metcalfe is Butthead acrostic to the attention of FARMS authorities? The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. Brent Metcalfe borrows the titles of a few works on literary and narrative theory and then concludes that such theory under mines the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. The 7th East Press was a gem. what happens if i ignore a ccj; It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. That was fascinating, thank you. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Follow @BHMetcalf. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? But Brent seems to do just the opposite. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. Some people who study and read deeply can be more expert than others with advanced degrees. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. I happen to believe so. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. The gift of your ADHD shines. And great questions John. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Brent Metcalfe. Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. Thanks for this podcast! This theory is now well accepted in academia. We hope to rerecord sometime next week. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. and our Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. Excellent question. She related all this to me and my companion. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. Fantastic interviews. I discovered New Approaches to the Book of Mormon back in 2002-03. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. Published by on 7 czerwca 2022. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Come to the dark side and tell your story. Part 1 of the interview stuck much closer to home for me. Vol. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. Oh. I heard he had left the church soon after returning home. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. Or even presenting the center view? What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. Carl, in parts 3 & 4 of the interview, Ill discuss the BoAbr and some of the challenges that believing scholars face in analyzing its ideational and textual origins. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Thanks! But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. January 15, 2015. This was interesting all around. Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. The weaker the church gets the better it gets and when it is completely impotent and ceases to exist it will be the best it can ever be. Metcalfe (ed. If youre familiar with image editing, straying from objectivity reminds me of having a color cast in a photo. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. Ron Priddis was my friend, and had recruited me to be a writer. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? I know about the September 6 and there are others. What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. If so, what will be the subject? Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. brent metcalfe excommunicated. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. 0% MARRIED Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. Brent Metcalf. pigella miraculous ladybug power. this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! What do you attribute this decline to? The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Thank you for this interview. Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Menu. The portion you quoted is an example of what I dub a conversion epiphany (as I mentioned in the podcast). Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? Signature Books. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. I cant wait to listen to the second half! Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. Let me clarify. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. @BHMetcalf. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. Youre one of the few secular critics of the church that can offer a really long perspective on challenges to Mormonisms truth claims. Learn how your comment data is processed. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Yes! Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. Very informative. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Ive heard there might. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study.

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